Catholics have Traditions, Protestants have Scripture, and Satan has accredited college professors of religious studies.
Satan, Social Justice Warriors and Derek Ramsey all forget that the Bible is not the Bible’s Author.
Patriarchal Forgery?
h ttps://derekramsey.com/2023/04/16/patriarchal-forgery/
By Ram-Man, 13 April 2023
A while back, while was I was debating “Headship: Authority or Preeminence?” at the Sigma Frame blog, a couple readers were discussing it over a Deep Strength’s blog. One commenter asked an excellent question:
“The text of I Corinthians 14:34-35 is included in every single existing manuscript. The only point of question is that some manuscripts have those two verses placed a few verses later at the very end of chapter 14. Anyway, what sin could possibly arise from women keeping silent in the churches? The sin of men leading? LOL I’m not sure why Derek would question that passage.
— comment by Sharkly @ Deep Strength, “Torturous logic on divorce and complementarian trashology“”
Why would I question that passage? What’s the point?
Recall in “Headship: An Evidence Summary” the list of patriarchal passages in the New Testament:
1 Corinthians 11:1-15
1 Corinthians 14:34-35
Ephesians 5:22-33
1 Peter 3:1
Colossians 3:18-19
1 Tim 2:11-15
Titus 2:3-5
The argument for Headship from the New Testament is not particularly strong. It needs every bit of evidence it can, so each of the patriarchal proof-texts is important. Therein lies the problem.
One notices that Derek left out all the examples of Biblical headship. Esther 1, Abigail, Michal, and all the way to early Genesis.
Headship, male leadership over women, directly parallels our spiritual reality of Christ’s leadership. It was the explicitly Created Order of Eden, until it got reversed as Humanity’s Original Sin. This is one of the most critical parts of Christianity, therefore this will be a good fight.
And an easy one. Christianity is not hard to understand. It is only hard to accept. God wants us to know Him, in fact, He will not tolerate being ignored or misinterpreted. He didn’t kill His own Son just to watch us forget.
Forgeries
According to most scholars who study the origins of the books of the Bible, both 1 Timothy and Titus are considered forgeries. Few scholars—as distinct from theologians—believe those books were written by their stated authors, that is, the authors lied.
We begin with Social Justice lies? “The Bible supports my claim that men are NOT to rule over women. The proof is that the passages which prove me wrong, are contained in books of the Bible that were forgeries for 2,000 years and nobody noticed. Not until the properly credentialed scholars of Current Year came along, who don’t regard themselves as theologians. We cannot trust any part of the Bible that says I’m wrong, therefore the Bible says I’m right.”
Not even apocryphal. Straight-up forgeries. Because Almighty God couldn’t protect His own Word from human effort? Because only GAE-funded experts trained in evolution instead of Christ, could recognize such convincing lies?
Just give up, Derek. You got no case… but meanwhile, you pique my curiosity who those “scholars” are. You didn’t say but I still found him. One single, atheist college professor at one of the most notoriously Marxist universities this side of the Canadian border, claimed the Bible is a total lie and you believed him because… hmm… you idiot. I couldn’t think of a nice way to say it.
Segue
h ttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bart_D._Ehrman
Bart Denton Ehrman is an American New Testament scholar focusing on textual criticism of the New Testament, the historical Jesus, and the origins and development of early Christianity. He has written and edited 30 books, including three college textbooks. He has also authored six New York Times bestsellers. He is the James A. Gray Distinguished Professor of Religious Studies at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.
Derek, you let a Marxist college professor of Historical Jesus tell you that the Bible is fake? Why did you even listen to his claims? “I hate Christ but on a totally separate topic, I discovered that Christianity is a total lie.”
Ehrman was raised as an Anglican in the Episcopal Church; as a teenager, he became a born-again evangelical. In Misquoting Jesus, he recounts being certain in his youthful enthusiasm that God had inspired the wording of the Bible and protected its texts from all error. His desire to understand the original words of the Bible led him to study ancient languages, particularly Koine Greek, and textual criticism. During such studies at Princeton, however, he became convinced that there are contradictions and discrepancies in the biblical manuscripts that could not be harmonized or reconciled:
“I did my very best to hold on to my faith that the Bible was the inspired word of God with no mistakes and that lasted for about two years […] I realized that at the time we had over 5,000 manuscripts of the New Testament, and no two of them are exactly alike. The scribes were changing them, sometimes in big ways, but lots of times in little ways. And it finally occurred to me that if I really thought that God had inspired this text […] If he went to the trouble of inspiring the text, why didn’t he go to the trouble of preserving the text? Why did he allow scribes to change it?”
Ehrman lied. That entire last paragraph is a textbook SJW lie. “I was just like you and believed just like you, UNTIL I GOT SMARTER AND MORE EDUCATED. Today, I am SMART enough to NOT believe in Jesus. Are you SMART like me? ME SO INTELLIGENT I’M BETTER THAN JESUS!!!”
Be suspicious of any journey of discovery, that ends with the apostate becoming smart and educated enough to reject Christ.
He subsequently turned into a liberal Christian, remaining in the Episcopal Church for 15 years, but later became an agnostic atheist after struggling with the philosophical problems of evil and suffering.
Now that, I believe. Hard times came and he quit with the easy lies. Then, he lashed out at God for how other, unnamed people hurt him.
Liberals think intelligence is everything, meanwhile they live in a misery they don’t have the WISDOM to process.
In Forged, Ehrman posits that some New Testament books are literary forgeries and shows how widely forgery was practiced by early Christian writers—and how it was condemned in the ancient world as fraudulent and illicit. His scholarly book, Forgery and Counterforgery, is an advanced look at the practice of forgery in the New Testament and early Christian literature.
If I was SMART and EDUCATED, then I would be able to understand the arguments that Ehrman makes that the Bible is a forgery. (Not just Timothy & Titus that Derek claims.) I cannot. It would take a decade of intensive college work to gain that ability. Not happening.
It’s enough for me to recognize “the early Christians were notorious liars and deceivers, to the horror of pagans everywhere” is a blood libel. There were witnesses to Christ’s and the apostles’ miracles, remember? “They faked it” is a total nonstarter.
If I wrote a book claiming 2+2=5, and I wrote it in Latin, would you stop your life in order to become fluent in Latin in order to figure out that I’m wrong? Or would you just wrinkle your nose at my elitist stench?
SJWs love SMART and EDUCATED because they are materialists. True power is the ability to manipulate reality, they think, and obviously, smart people are going to do that better than stupid people.
They’re sad stories. “I’m a globally acknowledged expert with 200IQ, three PhDs and EIGHT Covid boosters! Haha, losers, I just… lost my job for misgendering a blue-haired slug… this is Jesus’ fault!”
You don’t need worldly smarts. You need to love the Truth. To demonstrate this, I will prove God’s mandate for male headship with the ENTIRE BIBLE tied behind my back!
If 1 Corinthians 14:34-35 itself is a forgery (and there is strong reason to think it, like the Pericope Adulterae, is not original), then 43% or 3 of the 7 patriarchal passages not only don’t count as evidence of Headship, but are evidence of doctrinal development.
Derek’s claim that exactly two sentences of 1 Corinthians are forgeries but we can totally trust the rest of it, is Jesus Seminar-level stupid. As in, “it just so happens that the wrong parts of the Bible are the ones that I don’t like”.
That is WHY I’ll fight with the entire Bible tied behind my back. Derek thinks he can invalidate Scriptural truth by fomenting doubt over whether it’s original material. He doesn’t realize the power of truth: it CANNOT be falsified. It cannot be destroyed, overwritten or twisted. It does not change depending on the source it’s drawn from.
It doesn’t really matter if people think women should be silent in churches. There is some evidence to think that there was a tradition of women and children sitting quietly and separately from the men in certain early church. But tradition isn’t doctrine. We need to know that our doctrines are rooted in truth.
Which is it? “It doesn’t matter if people think women should be silent in churches” or “there was a successful conspiracy to falsify God’s Word in order to make people think women should be silent in churches”?
“You can believe it if you want, but you cannot believe that that’s what God meant” is a WRONG answer because there is no truth in it.
The purpose of this post is not to argue that any of these patriarchal passages are in fact forgeries. Rather, it is to answer the question, “What’s the point of questioning it?” The answer is plain. If, and I mean *if*, one or more passages of significance are forgeries, then it greatly matters to anyone who is willing to ask whether or not Headship is a valid doctrine. One should be very careful before pushing an uncertain doctrine based in large part on forgeries.
I’ve never argued that 1 Timothy or Titus are actually forgeries, only 1 Corinthians 14:34-35.
You deceiving piece of witch shit, Derek. YOU didn’t argue it, but the first thing you did was import a proxy to argue it for you. “Most REAL scholars think Timothy and Titus are forgeries,” remember? What you are doing here, is blowing a big cloud of squid ink to create doubt, then posturing yourself to humbly request a reasonable compromise. How generous that you’ll let us have our wrong beliefs, so long as we admit that patriarchy was never God the FATHER’s plan.
SJWs believe there is no God and no Truth. They believe that Christians are “people who obey the contents of a book they don’t really understand, called the Bible”. Implication? If SJWs can rewrite the offensive sections of the Bible then they can shift… aka, converge… the Bible into ordering us to support the Narrative. The only difference between Jesus the Son of God and Jesus the Bitch of Beelzebub is a few words of text! A text that few believers can read in the original Aramaic! Christianity is founded on ignorance and rote obedience, just like Social Justice! We’ll do whatever Bible tells us to, regardless of the past or the future or inconsistencies or sky-God or ANYTHING EXCEPT THE NARRATIVE OF THE MOMENT!
Dumbfuck Social Justice Wankers think we’re just like them. Materialists obsessed with momentary gains. “I support the Current Bible Thing!”
See how Derek’s lies metastasize through Scripture like cancer:
But it does concern me how heavily the doctrine relies on (1) what may possibly have been an attempt by dishonest forgers to create a false doctrine where none previously existed and (2) based on traditionally difficult to understand passages that few theologians can agree on. Without the support of the potentially contested patriarchal passages, you are left with the uncontested passages Ephesians 5:22-33, 1 Peter 3:1, and Colossians 3:18-19, which together describe mutual submission.
Sharkly is only right—when he asks “what sin could possibly arise from women keeping silent in the churches”—if that is a tradition. If, rather, women are kept silent as a matter of false doctrine, then that is a grave sin we should all be concerned about.
Women being submissive nonparticipants IS a tradition, for legit and entirely non-Biblical reasons, and in non-religious contexts.
Ask a sailor. It’s bad luck taking women to sea, why? Because women aren’t men. She’ll sleep around, men will fight over her, then she’ll get pregnant and make a mess while they’re months out of port.
Ask a miner, soldier or other heavy laborer if he should accept women as peers. He’ll say no, why? Because women aren’t men. Women are weaker than men… physically, mentally and emotionally.
Ask an engineer or surgeon if he should accept women as peers. He’ll say no, why? Because after he invests all the training into a female apprentice, she’ll want to stay home with her sick kid instead of working. Assuming she ever develops the ability to manage complex systems with foresight and improvisation.
Ask a priest if he should accept women as peers. He’ll say yes, why? Because women technically aren’t men but they were supposed to be men and God, if God exists, is wrong about women being weak, doesn’t care enough to be clearly understood, and His clear instructions to the contrary are probably forgeries.
Which brings me to my primary argument, why women MUST remain silent. Why women MUST NOT be allowed peerage with men. Why women must be OBEDIENT AS SLAVES TO A MASTER.
Because women are not space aliens. We can see them. Watch how they behave.
We have seen for ourselves, in our lifetimes, this very day, what happens when women are liberated.
It is Hell Upon the Earth.
Women DO lust for “male privilege” and when they gain it, they do the bidding of devils. Welfare Queens and Ratchets demand male resources while refusing to respect men enough to even keep her vows.
How it started:
h ttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Susan_B._Anthony
In 1872, [Susan B.] Anthony was arrested in her hometown of Rochester, New York for voting in violation of laws that allowed only men to vote. She was convicted in a widely publicized trial. Although she refused to pay the fine, the authorities declined to take further action.
What’s the worst that could happen, huh? She just wanted her voice to count.
Aaand how it’s going:
h ttps://www.pasadenastarnews.com/2020/05/24/men-should-not-be-allowed-to-vote/
[I am a Los Angeles-area journalist who was waiting to interview some high-powered female] candidates, just shooting the breeze with the guys — men, as editorial board members are wont to be — I suddenly, capriciously, with no malice aforethought — with no thought at all, in fact — tossed out a verbal notion.
“I don’t think men should be allowed to vote,” I said.
“What!” one colleague sputtered. “What do you mean?”
“Just that. I suppose that means they — we — wouldn’t be allowed to run for office, either. Oh, well. You’d miss your Barack Obamas, but not so much your George Wallaces.”
“But — why?”
“‘Cause we messed up,” I said. “We had our chances, and we blew it, man. Give the women, I don’t know, say a thousand years, and then take stock. After all, we didn’t let them vote until a century ago.”
My colleague wasn’t having it. “You just want the women to rule ‘cause most of their politics are more aligned with yours.”
“And your point is?”
Meanwhile, our churches have changed loyalty from God the Father, to the Whore of Babylon. “We got the child care, we got the boy band, we got Sunday morning forgiveness for what happened Saturday night… what are we missing?”
“Complementarian marriage counseling!”
None of that would have happened, if women had been kept silent in the church.
And where are the men? Who even cares? We’re listless on the couch, unwanted in society, our wealth extracted by every means imaginable. Many of us were divorced because our wives went to the local priest for marital advice instead of submitting to us. We’re hated for keeping to ourselves, we’re hated for trying to participate, we’re hated for mansplaining how things work and blamed when things don’t work, and most of all, we’re hated because we’re not sexy enough. Barbie prefers prison thugs.
PRISON THUGS! Look at who the women are choosing, now that they aren’t “the chattel of men”! We let our women have a say, and found ourselves pushed out of the very society we built.
We should never have let them speak.
Women want to be disciplined, subjugated, controlled and humiliated. They are natural-born slaves. If you won’t believe the Bible then you can believe Fifty Shades Of Grey instead. Y’know, the other best-selling book of all time.
The women who are happiest, are the ones who willingly serve her husband and keep busy at home. The unhappiest women are the FREE women. Those C-Suite executives with lavish perks, the obedience of a thousand men and an empty nest. They’re so strong and independent, they drink themselves to sleep at night! No bartender!
All of this we learned for ourselves, with our own eyeballs, no education needed. We are firsthand witnesses to the NECESSITY of 1 Corinthians 14:34-35. Even if God had not required women to be silent and subservient, the fact remains that society and church thrive only when she is.
Boom. I proved Scripture without referring to Scripture. As much as I hate living in Current Year Clown World, it has confirmed Christ and His teachings as the Immutable and Eternal Truth like I never would have imagined possible.
I have seen evolution telling us that we’re perfected beings always getting better, and then I see us not do what we know we should… like tearing families apart, a severe failure of reproduction. Evolution can’t explain that.
I have watched Godless scientists explain that life on Earth is random, and I see them change their explanation every year so it doesn’t get disproven. Then I watch them Cancel dissidents.
And I just now while writing this, read a college professor claim the Bible is wrong because it says women should be obedient to men… but I know and have followed the collapse of my country and people in parallel with, and proudly credited to, female liberation from men.
Somebody is lying and it ain’t me eyeballs.
Which means it ain’t Scripture, either.
This is what Derek and the SJWs don’t understand: God is a Person. He is not a rulebook. God is not a synonym for Bible. God didn’t give us the Bible because we needed to practice arbitrary obedience to easily confused rituals. God is the Truth, and the Truth exists outside of ANY human tool or perception. The Bible is just a shortcut, a textbook so we don’t have to constantly rediscover how humans should behave. A history book so that Christ doesn’t have to reenact the Crucifixion twice a century, like the Judges had to save Israel every generation because the children never retained the wisdom of their parents.
When we DO have to rediscover how humans should behave, we reach the same conclusion Every. Single. Time. Every single time, we learn that men must rule over women. Society must be reserved for men while women are kept at home, barefoot, pregnant and usually happy despite themselves. But every time we achieve that stable society, something, some fatal flaw in our souls, makes women want to rebel and men want to appease.
Almost as if we need a Savior to fix us. We know the good we should do, but we don’t do it.
A decade or two ago, a loose-knit group of men coordinated over the newfangled Internetwork. They called themselves pickup artists because they wanted to pick up girls and get laid, and dedicated themselves to figuring out women for themselves. Trial and error only. !Science! They went on to independently rediscover the truth of Biblical sex roles, after which they chose (once again) to follow female misconduct for the poozy instead of holding to male righteousness and demanding better. They were soon destroyed by the MeToo movement.
It was like watching a reenactment of Eden.
I don’t care how exactly Genesis 3:16 phrased Eve’s curse, when I can see that curse for myself in modern America. While cloistered academics debate the semantics of dead languages, wondering what God meant with His “women, shut up and obey your men”, I live in the real world where God and women also live. Pretty lies dies quickly outside the Hive.
God is real. Truth is objective. The Bible is trustworthy. The man wears the pants.
Signed, an eyewitness to the necessity of male headship.